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Post by loupy on Dec 7, 2011 7:23:09 GMT
So, any tips on how to go about editing?
I can deal with short edits, for some reason - things that are say 10 pages or less don't seem like a big deal. But I have around 130 or so pages that I need to do a lot of editing on, and for the life of me can't figure out where to start. Do I open up a brand spanking fresh new blank word document and re-tyep everything, but better? I have stared at the computer so many times thinking "I really need to sit down and edit that" but then run screaming flailing my hands behind me because it seems really scary and daunting.
Anyone with tips editing (i just typed "teps" instead of "tips"....I think this might be a long process for me....)
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Post by 4amWriter on Dec 7, 2011 10:36:26 GMT
So, any tips on how to go about editing? I can deal with short edits, for some reason - things that are say 10 pages or less don't seem like a big deal. But I have around 130 or so pages that I need to do a lot of editing on, and for the life of me can't figure out where to start. Do I open up a brand spanking fresh new blank word document and re-tyep everything, but better? I have stared at the computer so many times thinking "I really need to sit down and edit that" but then run screaming flailing my hands behind me because it seems really scary and daunting. Anyone with tips editing (i just typed "teps" instead of "tips"....I think this might be a long process for me....) Hi Loupy, I am a freelance editor/writing coach, so I can help answer your questions. First off, are you talking about copyediting or substantive editing? They are very different forms. Copyediting doesn't involve structure or tracking plot/character development. Rather it is all about flagging faulty grammar/punctuation. Substantive editing is like an overall critique of the ms. It also depends on how many drafts you have written. 130 pages doesn't sound like a full ms. Is this a novella or a short story? If you haven't written a full draft yet, then I wouldn't do any editing yet. Editing is really the last stage of the writing process--especially copyediting. Overall critiquing can be helpful between drafts if you want to make sure your structure is tight, turning points, climax, etc. I know it is difficult to ignore the poor writing, but you will spend more time editing than you need to because you have to rewrite your draft. Does this make sense? Shoot back with further questions if you need to! Limebirdkate
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Post by limebirdwriters on Dec 7, 2011 10:57:02 GMT
Hi Laura,
You're in good hands with LimebirdKate, she knows what she's talking about!
Here's my little nugget of wisdom (if you can call it that!)
From experience, I would say that everyone edits his or her work differently. Editing is a long process (sorry) and is made up of many different layers that need to be taken into consideration.
I wouldn’t recommend writing from fresh, that would take forever! It’s just a matter of taking it step by step and don’t be scared. Editing and rewriting is so rewarding and fun once you get going! It also depends what type of editing you mean! Are you talking a proper overall critique, or just going back in and checking for spelling/grammar etc?
However, a NaNo novel is quite a different ball game. These novels were written very haphazardly and will need a lot of editing and rewriting!
This might not be what everyone else does, but what I usually do first is a proper read back over it, adding comments into the text (so, for example –‘ Need to add more depth here or add character description etc and picking up any glaring mistakes that I see first off.
Once this is done then I would go back and look at the key elements of your story. So, does my main character have a goal, an aim? What are the strengths and weaknesses of my plot? When you’ve figured these out and are happy with them, then you can look at each scene/chapter individually.
When you’re looking at each scene, make sure you check that you’ve got the emotion of your characters in there and if you’ve got the right mixture of narrative and dialogue etc. Things like that.
Once this is complete, then you can move on to the paragraphs and the sentences. So, I’m talking choices of words, adjectives, tense, adverbs etc. Have you got the right balance? Are my sentences too wordy?
Personally, I would also get someone else to read your book for you. They might be able to spot things that you didn’t, like continuity and spelling, punctuation etc mistakes. I would definitely also read my work aloud, as you will be able to see if it flows properly.
Anyways, get started! It’s not so scary once you get going. You can do it! Just take it one step at a time and believe in yourself!
However, if you’re interested, this is what happens if you’re looking to get your book published and you send it off:
So the first thing that is done is your own edit, which you have submitted.
Secondly your book will be looked at in terms of ‘structural editing’ so I’m talking characterisation, structure of the text and the actual plot. The editor will look through your book and give notes and suggestions about how you could improve it and key additions. They will then send it back to you with the suggestions and you will make the changes.
Once this has been done, then it’s a matter of copy-editing. This is where someone like me comes in! *waves* So, us little creatures will check through the book, checking for small mistakes, punctuations, spelling, grammar etc. Also things like factual information is right, like names, descriptions, ages. Basically the copy-editing stage is where the smaller details are checked. Again, you can do this yourself, but sometimes we read what we expected to write, so getting someone else to check over your work always helps. The more people that look over your book, the more chance there is of errors being spotted.
The very final stage of editing is proofreading. This is where the book will be looked at in terms of page numbers, colour, pagination etc. Also just an overall check for any errors etc.
I guess the most important think to think about when you’ve finished editing is not to panic. You’re never going to be completely happy! I know this sounds depressing but it’s true. There comes a point where you have to accept that it’s good and done otherwise you’ll be stuck there forever.
You’ll always want to tweak more or add more, but when it’s done it’s done. Step away from the book!
Bx
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Post by sharon2306 on Dec 7, 2011 11:09:10 GMT
Just out of interest, where would you find an editor? And how much do they (roughly) charge? I think editing is what's worrying me the most. I am obviously going to spend months going over this first draft and reworking it, but I'm no editor, and if I want it to have the best chance of being published I need a professional editor.
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Post by loupy on Dec 7, 2011 11:27:20 GMT
Oh my goodness thank you both for all that information!!
This is a NaNo novel - and it is complete ... well, I use that term VERY loosely. It's a children's book but its a blithering mess at this moment.
Maybe I am jumping ahead of myself by calling this "editing", because as I've read through it I have found that I'd like to break up different portions of the book into a few shorter children's books (maybe 3-4 books around 100 pages each or so) So, that being said, I suppose there is still a whole lot of writing left for me to do.
I think in my head I have an image of me taking the 130 or so pages I have now and starting from scratch on my few short novellas. Right now the story spans a kid's age from 5-18, and I'd like to expand on that in a few novels (and I think I might start him out at age 10 or so, rather than 5). So, that is what I'm looking at trying to do.
I have so many issues on it though, things that I wrote in the beginning that I completely forgot about by the end. Ah NaNo, it got words out of me but they don't make a bit of sense! LOL
I feel sort of out of my element here, I like taking random pieces of film and editing them together to make stories from sources where I know nothing of the original story - but here is something that came all out of my lil' ole head and I don't know what I'm doing.
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Post by 4amWriter on Dec 7, 2011 11:38:30 GMT
Just out of interest, where would you find an editor? And how much do they (roughly) charge? I think editing is what's worrying me the most. I am obviously going to spend months going over this first draft and reworking it, but I'm no editor, and if I want it to have the best chance of being published I need a professional editor. Hi Sharon, Well, I'll start by saying that every editor is different and will charge different rates for different services. Some charge by the hour and some by the page. Some will only do copyediting while some offer copyediting and critiquing (substantive or developmental). I am a freelance editor/writing coach and I usually charge by the page, unless there is extensive communication needed between me and the author. In this kind of scenario I will charge one fee for a round of communication (emails or phone calls). I offer critiquing in conjunction with copyediting and will charge one rate to do both at a discount. It is hard to say exactly how much you will end up paying an editor, for what an editor ultimately does is dependent on the shape of your ms. The worse shape it's in, the more time and work involved, and therefore more expensive than if the ms only needs minor tweaking. Again, though, every editor is different, with different rates and services and timelines. You should shop around (you should first ask writer friends for recommendations/references. If you stall out there, you can always Google or just check out the numerous writing sites for references). And yes, I am for hire...! Limebirdkate
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Post by 4amWriter on Dec 7, 2011 11:45:44 GMT
Oh my goodness thank you both for all that information!! This is a NaNo novel - and it is complete ... well, I use that term VERY loosely. It's a children's book but its a blithering mess at this moment. Maybe I am jumping ahead of myself by calling this "editing", because as I've read through it I have found that I'd like to break up different portions of the book into a few shorter children's books (maybe 3-4 books around 100 pages each or so) So, that being said, I suppose there is still a whole lot of writing left for me to do. I think in my head I have an image of me taking the 130 or so pages I have now and starting from scratch on my few short novellas. Right now the story spans a kid's age from 5-18, and I'd like to expand on that in a few novels (and I think I might start him out at age 10 or so, rather than 5). So, that is what I'm looking at trying to do. I have so many issues on it though, things that I wrote in the beginning that I completely forgot about by the end. Ah NaNo, it got words out of me but they don't make a bit of sense! LOL I feel sort of out of my element here, I like taking random pieces of film and editing them together to make stories from sources where I know nothing of the original story - but here is something that came all out of my lil' ole head and I don't know what I'm doing. It sounds like, and forgive me if I'm mistaken, that you might want to write a series--several separate books that follow each other. Think Chronicles of Narnia. Is that a close guess? If so, then I would take the first one (or take the one whose story speaks to you the loudest) and work on only that one. Once you have the framework for that one, take the next story and do the same. So on and so forth. It might be that you have way too much general information to deal with and it's getting unwieldy. If you break off one section (or story) and just focus on that, you might have an easier time understanding what you have overall. If the stories aren't related at all, and they are short stories, then you could certainly write them individually but put them all together in one book (like a chapbook for poetry). Even so, your best bet would be to work on one at a time. Hopefully this helps! Limebirdkate
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Post by loupy on Dec 7, 2011 12:10:01 GMT
Oh my goodness thank you both for all that information!! This is a NaNo novel - and it is complete ... well, I use that term VERY loosely. It's a children's book but its a blithering mess at this moment. Maybe I am jumping ahead of myself by calling this "editing", because as I've read through it I have found that I'd like to break up different portions of the book into a few shorter children's books (maybe 3-4 books around 100 pages each or so) So, that being said, I suppose there is still a whole lot of writing left for me to do. I think in my head I have an image of me taking the 130 or so pages I have now and starting from scratch on my few short novellas. Right now the story spans a kid's age from 5-18, and I'd like to expand on that in a few novels (and I think I might start him out at age 10 or so, rather than 5). So, that is what I'm looking at trying to do. I have so many issues on it though, things that I wrote in the beginning that I completely forgot about by the end. Ah NaNo, it got words out of me but they don't make a bit of sense! LOL I feel sort of out of my element here, I like taking random pieces of film and editing them together to make stories from sources where I know nothing of the original story - but here is something that came all out of my lil' ole head and I don't know what I'm doing. It sounds like, and forgive me if I'm mistaken, that you might want to write a series--several separate books that follow each other. Think Chronicles of Narnia. Is that a close guess? If so, then I would take the first one (or take the one whose story speaks to you the loudest) and work on only that one. Once you have the framework for that one, take the next story and do the same. So on and so forth. It might be that you have way too much general information to deal with and it's getting unwieldy. If you break off one section (or story) and just focus on that, you might have an easier time understanding what you have overall. If the stories aren't related at all, and they are short stories, then you could certainly write them individually but put them all together in one book (like a chapbook for poetry). Even so, your best bet would be to work on one at a time. Hopefully this helps! Limebirdkate Yep Exactly! As I wrote this for NaNo last year, I just kept progressing every now and then to a new year of the kid's life. So by the time I was done I had taken him from age 5 to 18 in a little over 100 pages and honestly it has no audience. So what I'm trying to do now is re-write it, i suppose, into a few shorter books (something I'd say an 8-10 year old would read or so) and bridge the age gap a little - make him older in the beginning of the "series" than what he starts out as now, and make him younger at the end. It just needs lot of nipping and tucking and pinching and pulling. I think probably I'm in some no-man's land in between the world of drafting and the world of editing, to be honest. I am really horrible at planning ahead, I try and it just doesn't work. Like J.K. Rowling knew how many books she'd have and the general scope of what was going to happen before she set out. I wish I could be that way. I probably just need to stop thinking about it so much, and pick up the darn pen and get to! LOL Thank you again for all your suggestions!!
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Post by sharon2306 on Dec 7, 2011 23:38:44 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions and information. I have a very rough draft at the moment of 120,000 words but I know already without even looking at it that there are lots of words that need chopping - whole scenes to be deleted which didn't add anything to the story. I also know, however, that additional scenes are needed to make the story more coherent. It needs tightening up and will be a long process I fear before I would dare show it to anyone who is a professional. However, I am absolutely determined to do this so there WILL come a point when I start looking and it will be scary but I have to do it because I've procrastinated long enough. (Like, about thirty years!) Love this forum, what a brilliant find!
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Post by ottabelle on Dec 8, 2011 2:36:27 GMT
Very helpful tips. I sort of do what Beth does. Another thing I did when I was working on another novel, which was my last serious effort before the NaNo novel was very time consuming but I liked it. (Maybe because it allowed me to procrastinate?) It worked because of the format of the story. It is written in sectional short-stories that come together as a whole. So after writing each short story (they were hand written, I didn't have the computer at the time, I also had a greater aversion to typing it.), I would rewrite each one twice. (Until I lost my spark for that story after a while of working, which was due to a few factors. Then I stopped rewriting them immediately and went to just writing a new story. That tapered off though. I did eventually finish the novel; I think. It hasn't been typed and checked on in a long while.) That way was a lot of work. I had a lot of time on my hands, though. I liked making sure each story was how I liked it before I moved on. The final typed was going to get a bit of reworking, too! ;3 I worried about it a lot. I don't worry as much about editing anymore. Should I? Probably. Will I get that big worry again when I do get to the editing phase? Probably. My advice? Don't sweat it! In your hands is an amazing work, even if you're in a boat with Loupy and a bit mixy on the details, just let the story talk to you ad you work through it again and it'll tell you what it wants. My biggest advice for grammar really only works for native speakers. Read a sentence you're unsure about and see how it sounds out-loud. Does it sound funny? There's probably a problem somewhere. Commas go where you would pause speaking. (I like commas; I tend to overuse them.) Grammar I'll leave to people who can explain things better. Those are just two tips I remind myself. If you want real advice though, listen to Beth and 4am. ;3
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Post by limebirdwriters on Dec 8, 2011 9:17:50 GMT
Wow, that sounds like a lot of hard work Ottabelle! That would definitely be helpful if I had the drive to do it, so good on you for being able to rewrite that much! I really am a full believer in reading things out loud. Like you said, you should be able to pick out quite quickly where the problems are. I wouldn't say our advice is 'real' advice, it's just different! Everyone edits differently and being able to pass on the experience of it is great!
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Post by limebirdwriters on Dec 8, 2011 9:19:37 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions and information. I have a very rough draft at the moment of 120,000 words but I know already without even looking at it that there are lots of words that need chopping - whole scenes to be deleted which didn't add anything to the story. I also know, however, that additional scenes are needed to make the story more coherent. It needs tightening up and will be a long process I fear before I would dare show it to anyone who is a professional. However, I am absolutely determined to do this so there WILL come a point when I start looking and it will be scary but I have to do it because I've procrastinated long enough. (Like, about thirty years!) Love this forum, what a brilliant find! Thanks Sharon, I'm glad we could help! Don't be scared of putting your work out there, you've written a book which is amazing! Not many people are able to do that. If you're stuck with some scenes etc why not post some extracts in the 'Novel' section of the forum and someone might be able to help?
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Post by 4amWriter on Dec 8, 2011 10:00:22 GMT
Thanks for the suggestions and information. I have a very rough draft at the moment of 120,000 words but I know already without even looking at it that there are lots of words that need chopping - whole scenes to be deleted which didn't add anything to the story. I also know, however, that additional scenes are needed to make the story more coherent. It needs tightening up and will be a long process I fear before I would dare show it to anyone who is a professional. However, I am absolutely determined to do this so there WILL come a point when I start looking and it will be scary but I have to do it because I've procrastinated long enough. (Like, about thirty years!) Love this forum, what a brilliant find! Your determination is what will get you through the rewrites and the editing. It is very scary, but it gets easier once you find a rhythm and style that you love. Working with a professional can be very scary, too, but I promise you'll grow more comfortable with the process as it goes along. Above all, don't give up and don't lose faith. You can do it!
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Post by 4amWriter on Dec 8, 2011 10:04:54 GMT
Very helpful tips. I sort of do what Beth does. Another thing I did when I was working on another novel, which was my last serious effort before the NaNo novel was very time consuming but I liked it. (Maybe because it allowed me to procrastinate?) It worked because of the format of the story. It is written in sectional short-stories that come together as a whole. So after writing each short story (they were hand written, I didn't have the computer at the time, I also had a greater aversion to typing it.), I would rewrite each one twice. (Until I lost my spark for that story after a while of working, which was due to a few factors. Then I stopped rewriting them immediately and went to just writing a new story. That tapered off though. I did eventually finish the novel; I think. It hasn't been typed and checked on in a long while.) That way was a lot of work. I had a lot of time on my hands, though. I liked making sure each story was how I liked it before I moved on. The final typed was going to get a bit of reworking, too! ;3 I worried about it a lot. I don't worry as much about editing anymore. Should I? Probably. Will I get that big worry again when I do get to the editing phase? Probably. My advice? Don't sweat it! In your hands is an amazing work, even if you're in a boat with Loupy and a bit mixy on the details, just let the story talk to you ad you work through it again and it'll tell you what it wants. My biggest advice for grammar really only works for native speakers. Read a sentence you're unsure about and see how it sounds out-loud. Does it sound funny? There's probably a problem somewhere. Commas go where you would pause speaking. (I like commas; I tend to overuse them.) Grammar I'll leave to people who can explain things better. Those are just two tips I remind myself. If you want real advice though, listen to Beth and 4am. ;3 Sounds like you know what you're doing! Great advice to read stuff out loud. That absolutely is a nifty trick to spot errors. Commas are a common problem for writers, so you're in good company. Yup, definitely don't let editing get in the way of your need to tell a great story. Editing is the final phase anyway. Enjoy the writing part of it while you can!
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Post by ottabelle on Dec 8, 2011 10:21:15 GMT
Haha, yeah I know but you guys actually, you know, have lots of experience and have more tips for different kinds of people. I just have ideas for me. And they don't always transfer to other people and I leave them with more confusion, after trying to explain how I know how to do something. Sharon: Post post post! 4am: How do you know when you need to seek out a professional? Do you need to every time before sending a book off? And thanks That actually made me feel really good. You both made me feel really good, actually. o: Editing can be fun, or it can be "urgh". Funny, true story: Essays I've written so far in college, which has only been about 6 but I'm just a.. sophomore I think. I think I have enough credits to be considered that. Anyway, I rarely give them a really strong edit after I write it and type it. I just hate looking at it again. I print if off, go over it and then fix it and that's it. I had a cool comp teacher, if you kept making the same mistake you only got counted off once. My most common mistake was to switch tense. I actually forgot about that until now, I'll need to pay attention for that.
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